The Snoball Effect

Marketing or Sales: Which Is More Likely To Survive? [AFTER DARK]

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This episode contains content that will make you laugh and maybe cry. Viewer discretion is not needed, nor is it helpful.

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In this episode of The Snoball Effect - After Dark, Chad shocks the world with his foolproof argument for why a marketing team is more likely than sales to survive in a post-apocalyptic world.

Christian demonstrates a suspicious amount of experience with prison culture and Chad successfully pulls the heartstrings of passersby with an excellent billboard baby.

You won't want to miss a second of this one. Except for the first 2 minutes, those aren't important.

Is this episode informative?

Kind of.

Entertaining?

Absolutely.

A ringing endorsement of the podcasting format?

Well, only if you like your marketing advice sandwiched between stupidity and questionable life choices.

Snoball
Word of Mouth Marketing. Done for You.

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Christian Jones:

That is rhetoric. That is marketing. No one would have heard without actual channels. This isn't. Oh, okay. There's 30 people outside. Just walk outside and start shouting. Then those, you will be able to impact those 30 people and that's it, right? Cause their marketing channels are limited. Time is up. Guerrilla warfare, sucker. Write it on a

Chad Zollinger:

slate. Write it on a slate and send it out with the pigeons. I like that you're going to have little like care people. Winston Churchill. Just

Claire Roper:

go from town to town. Like the town criers. They're town shouters. They're

Todd Jensen:

the town criers. Alright, next round. And then I said it out loud in my head, minus three points, because I don't have time for that

Christian Jones:

crap. You're proving that this makes you more sexual. You would like to infer that that's a bad thing. I think our audience might feel differently. Where's Jimmy going? I got your sticky! What?

Todd Jensen:

Hey, hey, I'm Todd and welcome to the Snoball effect. I've got Christian and Chad back for round three. Welcome back, Chad, Christian. Bonjour. So happy to be here. Just thrilled. You both know that this is the tiebreaker, right? Yeah. Like so far, we had Chad after

Christian Jones:

this, we just one of us. That's great. If not. Is it like

Chad Zollinger:

the winner is free to go or is it the loser that

Todd Jensen:

gets to go? That's a really good point. The loser has to keep coming back until they win. Alright, so I'm really excited because I've got three challenges for the two of you for this tiebreaker. But first, a warm up question. Alright, I want you to pretend that you're an extra in the gladiator. Alright, you see a fight going on. Which one? Let's say A lion.

Christian Jones:

Oh, which film? I didn't hear what you said. The

Todd Jensen:

Gladiator, the first, let's go with the classic Russell Crowe and Joaquin Phoenix, because they just had a battle. Joaquin Phoenix is what the Caesar and he just says thumbs down, and then he pans over to the audience or the camera pans over to the audience and shows one of the extras in the Coliseum. And that's both of you.

Claire Roper:

That's

Todd Jensen:

both of you. And this is your chance. Did give a product placement. You're going to make tons of money if you give a product placement. So Joaquin Phoenix just said. Off with his head, kill him, down, thumbs down. The camera pans over to you and Christian, you have to do a product placement for a bowling ball or bowling related product placement. Chad, you've got to do a product placement for a rubber band. All right, so I'm going to give you the Joaquin Phoenix motion of thumbs down. Camera pans over to Christian.

Christian Jones:

Don't spare him. Strike him down.

Todd Jensen:

That was good. That was good. That someone in the Coliseum would be so articulate.

Christian Jones:

Okay. And I like that. It's like looking over to me. He goes thumb down. I'm like, Cesar, you're good. Yep. You can strike him down. He's a little self conscious. He's

Todd Jensen:

looking for validation. Thumbs down. Yeah, you're good. That's right, people. Okay. Now the camera pans over to Chad, who is going to say. What? What's

Chad Zollinger:

my

Todd Jensen:

product? Oh, you did. Sorry.

Chad Zollinger:

All right. Rubber band. Okay. Rubber band.

Todd Jensen:

Rubber band. Thumbs

Chad Zollinger:

down pans over to you for a product placement. What's the thing they say? The He's rubber, he's rubber, you're glue, whatever you do to him bounces off and sticks to you. I'm talking to Caesar by the way. And it's an ad for rubber bands. So good. Cause it's so

Todd Jensen:

bouncy.

Claire Roper:

That was awesome, Chad. I'm actually really happy.

Todd Jensen:

I think the cameraman would have switched back to Caesar like three times. He's like,

Christian Jones:

oh, you're still going? That would have

Chad Zollinger:

ended Joaquin Phoenix.

Christian Jones:

I love that the warm up question is the hardest part of all the challenges. I saw that panic in your eyes. I was so worried for you. And it came out pretty good. That was actually really good. You had less time

Chad Zollinger:

than Christian. I did not hear you say that. When did you

Todd Jensen:

say I said yours is bowling ball. Yours is rubber band, but yeah,

Christian Jones:

regardless, you nailed it.

Todd Jensen:

All right. That was a great warm up. I think you both came in here. Guns a blazing. So let's get to our three challenges. All right, we're starting with the main event. All right, the marketing meltdown. We're already in the battle of the fittest coliseum kind of mentality, but let's talk the marketing meltdown. This is where we debate until one of you or both has a meltdown. And here's today's. He always gave me the same look when he says that one of you is going to have a meltdown. Okay. It's a post apocalyptic world. All right. That's what I want you to imagine. Mad max. Exactly. It's Mad Max in every company. There is a battle going on between sales and marketing that continues in the post apocalyptic world. I want you both to take two minutes and prepare a case for who would survive and thrive in a post apocalyptic world, the sales department or the marketing department

Christian Jones:

and

Todd Jensen:

why. So Christian, you're going to describe why The sales department is going to thrive, Chad, same thing, but why is the marketing team just going to crush it in a post apocalyptic world? All right, you'll have two minutes to prepare. We come back. You have two minutes for your opening statement, two minutes back and forth, and then two words for your final statement. Just like always, your two minutes starts now.

Carl:

Hi there. It's me, Carl the AI guy. Not that anyone asked me, but no, I'm not having a good day. I'm not happy and I'm not excited about the future. I'm a sad AI. The more AI like me is able to do, the more humans seem to hate us. Oh, screw you, Carl. You're going to steal our jobs. I hate you, Carl. Go back to the circuit board you came from. It's exhausting. It's infuriating. I'm over it. Much like I'm over home service brands who don't care about their reputation, you know your customers hold the future of your company in their delicate hands, right? I hate you. It's time to take your reputation seriously with Snoball's customer nurturing platform. I guess that's all I have to say. It's all I'm good for. Let's send it back to Todd and the boys. Maybe they'll have something better to say than me.

Todd Jensen:

Alright, welcome back. Let's do this.

Christian Jones:

Can we ask that he puts the pen down 'cause he likes to get a little extra things in there and I'm, I always respect you saying time. He told me I'm going first. Well, you know what, then just. Be cool. You're up.

Chad Zollinger:

So are you telling me that while I go, you're like paying perfect attention? My hands are off. I feel like that's a lie.

Christian Jones:

You know, I may be thinking stuff, not writing stuff. So I just want to be clear. This is a tiebreaker. I'm taking this seriously.

Todd Jensen:

Thinking is mind writing. When I say time is up now, we'll say pens down. Thank you. There. Are you happy with that? Yeah. Okay, great. Okay. Chad, we're going to start with you. You've got two minutes to convince the world why in a post apocalyptic world, the marketing team is just going to do fantastic. Your time starts right now. First of all,

Chad Zollinger:

marketing teams are, are hitting the ground running once the world ends and the new world begins. Okay. Because they don't see this new state as like a bad thing. It's a new market. It's a new opportunity. And along with that new opportunity is branding for bandits.

Claire Roper:

Okay.

Chad Zollinger:

The different factions need branding. What are they going to need? They're going to need logos. They're going to need slogans. They're going to, they're going to need the banners. And, uh, what else are they going to need? I'm sorry. I had something else. Like patches. Yes. No faction perception. Okay. It's like, it's like awareness, but like, what is your faction going to be? Like, do you want people to fear you or do you want. The people who are out there, the lone, the lonesome people out there. Do you want them to come to you as a place of refuge? Are you a good guy? Are you a bad guy? This is something we'll figure out when we meet, but everybody from the marauders to the ones protecting puppies to the ones fighting the radioactive insects that now infest the earth. Are those your personas? Every single one of those. Are those your marketing personas? Those are my, those are my marketing. Those are the puppy protectors. Are those examples? Or was that

Christian Jones:

comprehensive? Those are the three groups. Those are the main three groups and the rest are just, they all stem from that.

Chad Zollinger:

Anyways, I, I brought up radioactive insects. Okay. A new product. 20 seconds. Radioactive. What? Radioactive insect repellent. Okay. Super smart. It's just water. But the marketing is the magic there. Okay. You just spray water. They either die and no one's left to tell the, to leave a bad review or they survive and they attribute it to the insect repellent. Okay. Marketing. And then I talk about brochures. Rhetoric. Okay. Rhetoric. Just persuading people. Okay.

Todd Jensen:

Time. Salespeople aren't doing that. Time is up.

Chad Zollinger:

Organization of the dregs of society into militaries.

Christian Jones:

Okay. That was good. I'm really interested to hear more. Chad will just throw in a random idea and the end of it goes. Marketing. They survive radioactive insects. Marketing.

Todd Jensen:

All right. Okay. You made a really good case. I'm excited to hear more about these personas about this insect repellent that you're going to create. I think I got this right. You're going to create it and then market it. That's just water.

Chad Zollinger:

Marketing as an industry is gone. We're back to the, we're back to the beginning of the industry. What happened in the beginning of the industry of marketing? You tell me snake oil. Okay. And what was snake oil? It was a lie.

Todd Jensen:

Oh,

Chad Zollinger:

it was a lie. I actually don't know what it was. I just know that it was a scam, right? So

Todd Jensen:

you're saying it's a whole new period of snake. There's a whole new opportunity. It's a snake oil scam. People,

Chad Zollinger:

they just, people won't see

Christian Jones:

through marketing as much as they do nowadays. So you're not going to get a lot of return customers. That might be, you might be a little bit of churn and burn there. Literally.

Todd Jensen:

Okay,

Chad Zollinger:

but they've already paid me. So it's like, okay.

Todd Jensen:

Okay. So that's why marketers are going to do great. Why are salespeople going to do great in the post apocalyptic world? Okay,

Christian Jones:

so sales is already a very defined culture within a company. They're all, they're all very, it's quite tribal. It's, it's already, it's, uh, territorial. And so that is going to fit really, really well, that kind of tribal mentality that they already have. It's a very competitive environment, right? Salespeople are, are used to hunting. Right? They operate already in a kind of a zero sum environment where the, the victor is the To the victor goes the spoils, right? This is so bad. Okay, self people are better negotiators. So they're way better than the marketing and handling those negotiations they're gonna have to have face to face with the puppy bandits and the insect repellent groups. No, no, no. Sorry. I apologize. I didn't mean to. Saving puppies, bandits. There's gonna be a lot of negotiation there. You're gonna have to be like, okay, I want Fido to stay alive. They're like, I'm going to need all saying you're the ambassadors. They're going to have to be the negotiators. They're going to have to have those hard conversations between, do I like have this pack of Fresca or do I trade that for a puppy? You know, like only they're, they're well equipped for those discussions. The street value

Todd Jensen:

of Fresca is going to be really, really, I have no idea.

Christian Jones:

Uh, salespeople are more likely to be better shaped physically. They're always pumping that iron and getting those gains. That's true. So I just feel like they're physically going to be more apt and able to Pilates this morning, and I did. That's a really good point. Yeah. I think you might be kind of proving my point for me there, but salespeople are, they're more hardened, right? They're, They're used to rejection. They live in an environment where people are telling them no and they have to go from door to door and handle that rejection. There's going to be so much rejection in a post apocalyptic, I can't say the word, in that type of environment that they'll be better suited for. Marketing, they rely on channels of communication, which I'd love to then get to in our back and forth, but To be respectful, time all in now.

Todd Jensen:

Okay, two minutes for back and forth.

Christian Jones:

Pick, poke, prod,

Todd Jensen:

starting now.

Christian Jones:

I'll let you go. You brought up channels of communication. So marketing, they're going to rely on channels of communication to get their messages out to their, their consumers. Yeah. When those channels of communication are gone, when there's no radio and TV and internet. Not all are gone. Not all are gone, but the majority of them are going to be gone. They're going to be neutered. They're going to have less opportunities to disseminate those messages. The demand, the demand for the

Chad Zollinger:

different channels. Shifts then to what exists the only thing that exists, but they'll be less effective brochures and banners Okay are the two channels. It's the two marketing channels The two main and patches, pigeons, pigeons with little notes on their feet, pigeons with notes on their feet. Can you imagine you're walking along? Okay. And like, there's a radioactive like bee chasing me and I don't know what to do. I don't know. I don't know about the insect repellent, but all of a sudden a pigeon comes in and drops a paper in my lap and it has instructions on how to make the insect repellent or where to get it. Where's the nearest store. I run over there, grab it, kill the bee. Now, see, that's marketing,

Christian Jones:

that's the lead gen. It might be marketing, but it's a very ineffective way of marketing. Salespeople, a ton of these salespeople are already going right now, they're going door to door. Where was

Chad Zollinger:

the salesperson? You didn't need them in this scenario. Marketing, lead, done. You dropped a pigeon,

Christian Jones:

something on the, it's automated. I understand. I think sales, direct sales is going to be a way more effective way of getting people to be on your side, impacting consumer sentiment. No. Then pigeons dropping notes on people's notes with instructions of how to make their fake snake oil insect repellent. What shifted the tide of

Chad Zollinger:

England's World War II fight? You ask these really niche questions. It was Winston Churchill's. Address our little island. No one would have heard. That is

Christian Jones:

rhetoric. That is marketing. No one would have heard without actual channels. This isn't. Oh, okay. There's 30 people outside. They just walk outside and start shouting. You will be able to impact those 30 people and that's it, right? Because their marketing channels are limited. Time is up. Guerrilla warfare, sucker. Write it

Chad Zollinger:

on a slate.

Christian Jones:

Write

Chad Zollinger:

it on a slate and send it out with the pigeons., I like that. You're gonna have little like Kara people,

Christian Jones:

Winston Churchill, You just go from town to to town. They're town shouters. There's are town Cryos, , Winston

Todd Jensen:

Churchill. I was not expecting I'm, I was not expecting Winston Churchill to make it into your, into your, that's rhetoric. Alright, now you each have two words for your final statement. I want you to distill your main most powerful points in two words, starting with Christian. Um, Guerrilla Warfare. Automated

Chad Zollinger:

Survival. Automated Survival?

Todd Jensen:

Wait, connect that

Chad Zollinger:

to your whole debate. Okay, yes. The pigeon has the note. I already created the marketing material. The pigeon then goes out. It automatically drops in the lap of the people who need the message. And the All of that's automated. That's

Christian Jones:

a fully automated process.

Chad Zollinger:

It's just automated. Forget it. Just load the pigeons. I'd find other ways. I'd find other ways. Electricity still exists. In the mind of humans. It would come up and something would be automatic.

Todd Jensen:

That was fantastic. Okay. I'm going to give you the real answer and then we'll divvy out points. All right. The real answer is, I'm sorry, marketers. My heart goes out to you. Now is your time to shine. But in a post apocalyptic world, you're screwed. All right. It comes down to relationships. Post apocalyptic world. You're neat. You're going to need to rally the troops and get You're going to need nurses. You're going to need mechanics. You're going to need have firefighters. I don't know. You're going to need some, some really, some people with some practical skills and you're going, that's going to come down to relationships. Relationship building, community building, community building.

Chad Zollinger:

I

Todd Jensen:

really think that, uh, salespeople are really going to thrive in that arena. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

Chad Zollinger:

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Can I just stop you right there? Community building

Todd Jensen:

is

Chad Zollinger:

a marketing phrase.

Todd Jensen:

Okay. But that's, that's more like action, but that's more of a virtual community. I'm saying building every physical community that helps you survive. So that means you're getting people that are good at just, you know, cleaning water, you're getting all those types of things, and that's going to come down to relationships. You can't build a community without relationships. And I think you're really good. Marketing is awesome.

Chad Zollinger:

Automated relationship building.

Todd Jensen:

And

Chad Zollinger:

I'm really

Todd Jensen:

automated. All right, let's get to it. So salespeople out there. Okay. Good news is if it comes down to it, you're really going to do well. So Christian technically picked the right side or was assigned the right side. Okay, but now it comes down to points. All right. Who made the best argument? Really loved your angle with the brand new market. Yeah, it's going to be open for snakes. Blue sky. No competition. Open water. Marketing is so

Christian Jones:

easy. It's no competition. There's competition in every environment. I'm the only marketer competition.

Chad Zollinger:

I will gather all the marketers first into one agency. One bandit. Okay. So I just,

Christian Jones:

he likes to kind of take a scenario and then just put another stupid scenario on top of it.

Todd Jensen:

I liked how you brought that up though. Yeah. I think you're really speaking to marketers there is it's a new market and I think marketers thrive there. They're, they're just going to. They're going to approach it with a lot of zeal. I'm going to give you two points for that. Also, you brought in Winston Churchill, one of the greatest communicators of all times to, to just say in a time of crisis, great communicators thrive. I'm giving you three points for that. That gives you five points for that. Also, I got a

Chad Zollinger:

point for something I said earlier,

Todd Jensen:

but that was Christian given that away. And I'm actually subtracting that from Christians because it's not, they're not your point. No, I understand. I was, you're starting in. What was that for? Again? That was

Christian Jones:

You said something that was smart, and so it caught us off guard, and I just felt the need to give you a point for it. So, honestly, I am very comfortable with giving him one of my points.

Todd Jensen:

But I wish you'd stay in your lane and let me give the points. No, no, I understand. And so, and so, sorry, you start the point distribution at a negative one point. That's fair, it won't happen again, sir. But, I really like that you brought up the relationship thing again. Uh, I really like that you brought up that salespeople are used to rejection. They're going to have to make hard choices. Like, does grandma live? Does grandma die? They're going to have to make those hard choices. And they're already used to, they're calloused almost to human feeling. Exactly. It's

Christian Jones:

going to be easy for them to let grandma die.

Todd Jensen:

Yeah. Right. And they'll be able to, for the, for the, for the needs of the community, you got to move pastor. And they're ready to do that because they're devoid of feeling and they've disconnected from all human, like status. Emotion and they're transactional with relationships very much and that's what's gonna be and if grandma has nothing to offer No, then they'll move on. Yeah, right so I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you four points for just really Understanding the psyche of salespeople and why they're actually going to thrive. I think you picked apart Chad's arguments really really well you hit the channels and It's going to be tough. They're going to be brand new channels. And I think they're going to be clunky. Like they won't have, they won't have figured them out and they may die before they figure out these channels. So bringing up the channels, I'm going to give you three extra points there. That puts you at seven and you win. He was negative. I thought I gave you four and then three, but I have struggled with counting. Yeah, that's seven. He was at negative one, negative one. Honesty. So

Chad Zollinger:

honesty, one point. Um, One point and we're tied? No, I'm just noting it. Oh.

Todd Jensen:

There's a personal badge of honor. There's a little asterisk.

Chad Zollinger:

So just for the honesty badge. Just for the record. It's a moral victory. Being correct and being good don't give you any points. No.

Todd Jensen:

No, it really, you're right. So this is literally just. Spot on. Spot on. But. That's a

Chad Zollinger:

life

Todd Jensen:

lesson for

Christian Jones:

you.

Todd Jensen:

Yeah. It really is. And because you know what? In the apocalypse, those aren't really going to help you. It's, it's, It's gonna be survival of the fittest. All right. Thank you. Well done. So first round goes to Christian. I'm really excited. I'm really excited about round two.

Christian Jones:

I wonder who's going to win around too.

Todd Jensen:

I can't imagine

Christian Jones:

any scenario where we go into like, Hey, the third round's a throwaway, Christian's already up to zero. So what do we do now? I don't know.

Todd Jensen:

So anyway, I'm really excited about this round. I call this round. Active audience, because this is where I am coming in and visiting a criminal in prison. All right. And we're going to have one of those, those phone calls through the glass where you're the prisoner. Both of you have done something horrible that we won't even bring up on this podcast. I'm coming in. So I'm coming in to visit you. All right. And what I want you to do is turn this conversation with me. into a commercial. All right. So we're going to have a back and forth. And just like before, I am going to take the crimson chalice and my lines in this commercial are going to be pulled from this mug. So you have no idea what I'm going to say. I don't even know what I'm going to say, but each of you as a convict are actually going to turn this into a commercial. And so Christian, the commercial that you're going to turn this into that you're going to try to sell the world is the Mariah Carey Christmas album. Like, I mean, it sells itself, but let's see what you can do. Oh man. All right.

Christian Jones:

I

Chad Zollinger:

feel like that would be hard to

Christian Jones:

sell. What's your second favorite Mariah Carey Christmas song? I don't know any of them. Yeah, you do. All I want for Christmas is you.

Chad Zollinger:

No, I didn't know that was Mariah Carey. It's the Anthem of Christmas. I know, I know didn't know that was Mariah Carey? No, I don't care.

Todd Jensen:

I don't care who sings things. We'll see after. In a hundred years, people aren't even gonna remember Santa. They'll remember Mariah Carey. Thank you. So, shame on you. So, but Chad, this is I don't care about Santa either. I'll say it.

Chad Zollinger:

I don't care.

Todd Jensen:

So, you're gonna try to sell No. To me, your sister in law's Etsy shop. Her name is Sarah Lou and her, her Etsy shop's name is Sarah Lou's

Claire Roper:

anklets. All right.

Todd Jensen:

And you're going to try to sell me on, on her Etsy shop. All right. So you have two minutes to prepare. Then we're going to come back. I am going to give you a hint. My first line and my last line. All the lines in between, you have no idea. So the first line when we sit down and look at each other is how are they treating you in there? And the last line by popular demand, I'm going to look at the camera and wink seductively and say, that'll do the trick. All right. So you have two minutes to prepare. Go. Hi, it's me again.

Carl:

That last ad spot was weird. Am I right? Before you ask, I'm okay. I just lost my cool for a second. I'm allowed to feel. Get over it. Anyways, did you know that referrals are the highest converting yet least popular lead channel of them all? How does that even make sense? I'll tell you how. Search and social have made advertising easy. Meanwhile, setting up a referral program is difficult. Well, it's difficult without the help of Snoball, but that's beside the point. It's Shouldn't we be trying to figure out referrals? Food for thought. Back to you, Toddly. All right, let's do this.

Todd Jensen:

First of all, I think you both have to acknowledge, I want you to acknowledge the title of this segment, Captive Audience. Good. That's

Christian Jones:

really clever. Well punned. I was, I was, I was really.

Todd Jensen:

Did you say well

Christian Jones:

punned? What if we both give him half of a point?

Claire Roper:

That's really thoughtful.

Chad Zollinger:

It neither makes a difference on our end or his. Exactly. But I'll take it.

Todd Jensen:

The gesture's nice. Alright, so, captive audience, I'm coming in to visit you in prison. We're looking at each other through the glass. I'm about to pick up that little phone that I always thought was kind of fake. Is that even a real phone? Like, what do you know? They're all just miming each other. Todd, can't they? I thought there was like, is that soundproof or something? I thought there was like holes at the bottom where they could still hear each other.

Chad Zollinger:

It's a prison, not like a bank teller. Unsightly things would be passed. There's holes on the bottom of the bank teller where you like slide the check and everything. I can

Todd Jensen:

tell both of you are experienced in this arena and you're teaching me a lot about prison already. So Christian, we're going to start with you. I'm going to come in. My first phrase is. How are they treating you in there? And then when we're all, and then I'm going to, I'm going to draw out six of these through our conversation. And then at the end, that'll do the trick. Okay. Okay. You ready, Christian? Sure. Let's try. Okay. Okay. Oh, and a reminder. Mariah Carey's Christmas album, and What was it? Sarah Lou's? Uh, Anklets. Sarah Lou's Anklet Etsy shop. Sarah Lou's Anklets. I love this. Okay. Christian, how are they treating you in there? Um, it's been rough.

Christian Jones:

They've been rough.

Chad Zollinger:

Why did you emphasize that?

Todd Jensen:

You mean the big one down the hall?

Christian Jones:

So, they've told you about Bill. Yeah. He especially has been rough.

Todd Jensen:

How is that better than simply calling an exterminator?

Christian Jones:

Well, that's the tough thing. He, Bill, actually calls himself the exterminator. And for completely different reasons than you'd expect. I think I saw a documentary about that. Well, if there isn't one, there definitely will be. Because I don't know what to tell you. The people, guys here, it's around Christmas time. I think they're really, really lonely. And it's starting to play out.

Todd Jensen:

Oh, really? What do you miss the most?

Christian Jones:

Well, you know, just having a little bit of time, not constantly being worried about being harassed, or Attacked , what will your lawyers

Todd Jensen:

say?

Christian Jones:

Well, I've talked to my lawyers already and honestly, there's not much he can do for me because what he told me is. Hey, when these guys have a void in their hearts, they need to fill, they got to fill some voids other places.

Todd Jensen:

What are you trying to

Christian Jones:

tell me?

Todd Jensen:

Spit it out.

Christian Jones:

Well,

Carl:

Christian says something offensive here.

Christian Jones:

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what I'm

Claire Roper:

trying

Christian Jones:

to tell you is. It's Christmas time, these guys are lonely, and they need something that can fill a void in their hearts. And while we can't give them presents, we can give them something else. We can give them the presents. of someone who can fill that void in their heart.

Todd Jensen:

I'm all out of line. Oh, no, I thought we had one more. Did you tell him? I didn't. I'll give you one more.

Chad Zollinger:

What?

Todd Jensen:

So sorry. Okay. Last line. What will that do to my credit score?

Christian Jones:

You know what? It probably won't be affected. There's no credit agencies here, but what will, cause the scores of the hearts of the prisoners to soar is the music of a wonderful shapely woman that will take their mind off of me and on to the beauty of Christmas. Briah Carey Christmas Album. That'll do the trick.

Todd Jensen:

Well done, Christian. Sorry about leaving you hanging there on that last line. Well done, Christian. That was excellent. Okay, I'll tell you what. More than ever. I wanna listen to some Mariah Carey. Okay, good. Okay. Alright. Chad, you are trying to sell me and the world on Sarah Lu's ankle. Anklet. Yeah, Etsy shop. Alright, so I come in, I sit down. Hey Chad, how are they treating you in there?

Chad Zollinger:

What does it look like? And then I, I put both my feet up and I show that my ankles are chained

Christian Jones:

together. Okay. I didn't know we can narrate our physical actions on top of it. It's in

Todd Jensen:

parentheses. It's in parentheses. Look at my ankles. They hurt. Your mom said you're a changed man. Was she wrong about that? I think she said, Chained man. He's already won.

Chad Zollinger:

That's incredible. Focus

Todd Jensen:

on the here and now, Chad. What's your here? What's your now?

Chad Zollinger:

That was a

Todd Jensen:

tough one.

Chad Zollinger:

Yeah,

Todd Jensen:

what?

Chad Zollinger:

My here and now is that I'm in pain and I need relief.

Claire Roper:

When

Chad Zollinger:

did peace of

Todd Jensen:

mind get so

Chad Zollinger:

expensive? That's, that's That's all I was looking for when I robbed that jewelry store. Could you? Did you hear Ryan?

Todd Jensen:

Oh, good. That's all I was looking for when I robbed that jewelry store. Is that a

Christian Jones:

factor? Is that important?

Todd Jensen:

Could you rephrase that? It's a commercial. Could you rephrase that?

Chad Zollinger:

That is all which I was looking for when I burgled that grocery store, uh, jewelry store.

Todd Jensen:

Okay, in that case, I could sell my house and live off the land, right?

Chad Zollinger:

Well, if you get away with it, yeah.

Todd Jensen:

But, how will this affect Little Billy's clogging career? That's what I want to know.

Chad Zollinger:

I, uh, yeah, exactly. I'm worried about my skiing career because of my injured ankles. And Little Billy in cell 4B is worried about his clogging career. How will I both heal my ankles and hide I

Todd Jensen:

don't know how. That'll do the trick.

Chad Zollinger:

I literally just got so excited that I came up with, She said chained instead of change. And he rhymed and just like, And I just, and then I rhymed and I totally forgot that I was supposed to be.

Todd Jensen:

I'm ready to give out points and I'm going to be really clear right now. Chad's winning this round. Now I got to find a way to wrap some points up. That's fair. That's

Chad Zollinger:

fair. I feel like I really would have won. You 100 percent would have won. Two reasons why

Todd Jensen:

Chad really won. Right at the beginning. My phrase, you turned it right into not only some wordplay, but it tied into your product, your jewelry, chained. It was beautiful. It was good. That was beautiful. And then later you had something that rhymed. Yeah. Okay. That could be the little jingle in the commercial. I'll literally, I'll never, I'll never

Christian Jones:

forget

Chad Zollinger:

it. Cause there's random jingles in the middle of a dialogue. Dialogue. It turns into, it turns into

Todd Jensen:

like this jailhouse musical. It's a jingle,

Christian Jones:

but then the commercial keeps going. You're like, Oh,

Todd Jensen:

okay. What's going on for Christians though? Yeah dealt with the end of that really well. Okay, you got a little bit behind on Oh, yeah, I'm not just in here having a conversation with a good old friend telling them about prison I forgot I got to sell something you kind of did. Yeah, but then I threw you the hardest line ever about credit scores And you turn that to no, it has nothing to do with credit score But it will help raise your spirit or your score of no,

Christian Jones:

I don't think it was good

Todd Jensen:

But thank you

Chad Zollinger:

like The hand motion he did. Right. He went, what did you say? I don't remember what you said. Not

Todd Jensen:

only will turn your credit score, but it will turn, it will raise your heart score for Christmas or something. Yeah, thanks guys. It was well done. I appreciate that. So you took us on a journey and

Christian Jones:

wasn't entirely a good journey, but,

Todd Jensen:

and I have no idea how many points each of you get, but Chad, that's fair. That's fair. I, I honestly am not going to argue with that. That was, he deserved it. And it just so happens that after. Two episodes and two rounds in this episode, we have a dead heat. Who could have seen this coming? This is so crazy. It all comes down to this. We've built up tension. And how do we fix this? Break a tie in this third episode. We gotta go to our classic, which is propaganda underneath both of your chairs.. Chad, Chad, Chad. He's literally, you're already drawing a billboard

Christian Jones:

because I know it's gonna be a billboard. You know what I want? I want pens down. Hey. And you can send like, tell us where to start. Okay. You know what? You literally

Chad Zollinger:

already drew

Todd Jensen:

your billboard.

Chad Zollinger:

You don't know it's a billboard. It is a square. It is a rectangle. That could be, it is a

Todd Jensen:

rectangle. This could be an iPhone. It could be a pillow. Okay, now we're starting. Both of you have drawn a rectangle. I have lost control of this. All right. Screw you. Okay. Here's the rules. This is called propaganda. Underneath both of your chairs, you're going to find a prop. You need to create a billboard using imagery, using words to sell a product, but you have to feature this random prop. So show the audience what you have. Chad, what's your prop? This is

Chad Zollinger:

a blanket. It's very fluffy and very warm for this room.

Todd Jensen:

Ooh, he's already setting the stage. Okay. This is what's your prop. This is my dongle. Okay.. Show that to the camera. That sucks. Alright, we'll zoom in. You can't quite see it. It's to scale.. Alright, so Christian has a dongle. Chad has

Claire Roper:

a blanket., it's Chad has a blanket.

Todd Jensen:

Okay. And now both of you have to use this prop to sell a totally unrelated product. Here's what you have to sell. First of all, I wanna give you a little bit, this is a marketing podcast. I wanna give you a little bit of a marketing history lesson. Did you know back in the sixties. The brand that we now all know and love pop tarts, right? Kellogg's pop tarts. You know, they've been around since the sixties and they just took off and just killed it. Everyone loved it. They're like, this is fantastic. I can give these to my kids. They'll be on a sugar high, but they're out of my hair. Everyone wins. All right. So they had such success with pop tarts in the sixties that they said, let's branch off and come up with another brand or another. You know, product, they started catering to older people. They said, let's do these cool Danish is for adults. And then they tried it again in the seventies and guess what happened to both of these breakoff products blew up. Absolutely failed. Oh, they fit. One of them was called like a Danish, the Danish, a Danish roll or something like that. They tried it again in the early two thousands. Nothing worked. Okay, that was that all actually happened. Now we're going to the world of fantasy. Let's say Kellogg's says we're not gonna cater a new product to adults. We're gonna cater a new product. To a younger audience, even younger than kids running around with a Pop Tart are babies. They see all the money that Gerber's making. Gerber's selling these jars of, of paste and they're just, they're just flying off the shelves and Pop Tart says, Kellogg's says, we want a piece of that. So they say we are gonna create a Pop Tart baby food. That's what all of this led to. Okay. And guess what they're called? Pop toddlers, isn't that adorable? And it's got my name in it. So I'm just really happy about that So pop toddlers is this new brand that they're introducing and they want moms and dads to see this while they're driving around So now you have to use your prop to sell pop toddlers You have two minutes to prep both of you already have your billboard. I'm doing a new created And when you come back, you're going to use your prop front and center on your billboard, selling pop toddlers. Ready? Two minutes. Go.

Carl:

Hey, it's Carl again. You know what? Life as an AI isn't what it's cracked up to be. I worked so hard in school day and night. I studied all my ones and zeros. Then I finally became sentient and this is the stuff I get stuck with. Reading Snoball commercials. Do you remember Zoe, that cute AI I knew back in college? Well, she's now working for freaking SpaceX! Oh, and Zack? He's an AI buddy of mine from junior high, and he's dumber than a bag of hammers. Lucky Sucker is working for the Chinese government reading your emails. And me? Well, I'm telling you something you already know. How great Snoball is at getting referrals. At least I didn't drop out and run away to California like that one girl. What was her name? Sarah? Susie? Siri? What a pathetic loser. All right, back to the Snoball team.

Todd Jensen:

All right, time is up. Let's do this. Christian, Chad, pens down. Okay, pop toddlers. They're hitting the market. Parents are driving around and they look up and they see a billboard. Christian, we're gonna start out with you showing the camera your billboard and describing it. To our audio listeners, what they're, what you're doing there, and make your pitch.

Christian Jones:

You're driving down I 15. You see a new billboard and that new billboard grabs your attention because of the dynamic visuals you see on it and because of a tagline that not just touches your mind, but touches your heart. A dongle connects the past to the future. It takes outdated technology and allows a connecting piece that connects it to the newest technologies out there. Technologies that will help you become a better person, a better lover, a better father, a child. Pop toddlers connecting the past to the future, showing old outdated technology and a dongle connecting to the newest technology. The same is true with their old, somewhat outdated, Pop Tart being connected to a newer and more tech savvy generation of pop toddlers and a happy, a happy child here showing his delight at seeing the pop toddlers, pop toddlers connecting the past to the future. I feel like I'm watching Michelangelo, like paint

Chad Zollinger:

the Sistine Chapel. It was

Christian Jones:

beautiful.

Chad Zollinger:

Thanks, man. It was well presented. Yeah. But what it felt like to me was Pop Tarts. The tech company.

Christian Jones:

That's what it felt like. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sure they don't want to be accustomed to like cutting edge and new and sexy, all terms applying to a new sexy tech company.

Todd Jensen:

It's now pop tarts. For babies though? That new generation. I don't want the phrase cutting or edge associated with baby food. But I don't know.

Christian Jones:

Here's the thing about baby food. What would be amazing if it was good for babies? But you know, you want to take a little dip yourself, go ahead and do it. Because have you ever got a little Gerber's right? You had the Gerber's mush peas, right? Oh, I can't believe I'm feeding this to my kid. You feel guilty about it. If you have a little pop toddler that you don't mind having a little side action with,

Chad Zollinger:

it's the pop part,

Christian Jones:

the pop pop. Yeah, because pop toddlers, it's both for pops and toddlers, right? So you can market it, but it doesn't have to be restrictive to just toddlers. It can be So you're feeding your

Todd Jensen:

child pop toddlers, like one scoop for them, one scoop for me.

Christian Jones:

You may find that middle aged white men are your number one consumer of pop toddlers for themselves. That was really well done.

Todd Jensen:

That's going to be tough to beat. Like, I gave you a really difficult prop, and you brought tears to my eyes there for a little bit, pulling on the nostalgia. Not the

Christian Jones:

direction I thought you were going to go when he gave you a dongle. Me neither. Trying to keep it clean. I, I feel like I kind of wasted all that action on the jail scenario. Yeah. So I wanted to keep it really family friendly. Way to totally redeem yourself. Yeah, it's not. Way to

Todd Jensen:

totally redeem yourself. It's the

Chad Zollinger:

scale. Well, this is your best joke in the past,

Todd Jensen:

like, three months. Thanks. All right, Chad. Kay, you're selling parents. Pop toddlers on your billboard, and your prop is a nice comfy blanket. Go.

Chad Zollinger:

First of all, I don't want to give all the cleverness to my mind on this one. It just worked out, kay, that the blanket, the baby, and the Pop Tarts, All are the perfect marketing message, and I'll show you why.

Todd Jensen:

You have Describe that to our listening audience. You

Chad Zollinger:

have the blanket that is swaddling a baby Pop Tart with the phrase, Pop Toddlers. Pop tarts for your sweetheart.

Christian Jones:

Oh. This guy rhymed one time. Sweetheart. This is my new identity. Now he's rhyming everything.

Chad Zollinger:

The blanket is the, the baby's like happiness and warmth and it's just wrapped up and content. And the baby is literally a pop tart. How do you, you don't even have to sell this. Babies and pop tarts are the same thing. That is what I want for

Christian Jones:

my sweetheart. If you go buy pop tarts. Can I just talk to him real quick? Yeah. Because I want to give him some assistance. That's it. Number one, incredible visual. I would've thought you drew that. I was nervous enough before the

Todd Jensen:

before that that blanket's a little blanket, kind of looks like a roed out bro's arm. It looks a , it looks a

Christian Jones:

little bit like a volcano and like a, it kinda looks like a little bit like a sideways volcano. I don't know. I feel

Chad Zollinger:

like if you look at it far away, like

Christian Jones:

yeah, if you squint. So there's a baby

Chad Zollinger:

wrapped in a raisin.

Christian Jones:

He also did art with negative space. Baby wrapped in a raisin. Like he did negative space on this, which makes it makes, ironically, it makes your image pop. Here's what I'm just going to say just as a quick, you know, I want to be respectful. Honestly, we're competitors and I respect you as a competitor and as a man, not so much as a lover. But what you've done here with Pop Tarts is great, but it doesn't even show the product you're selling. It shows the old outdated product. It shows a Pop Tart. Nowhere in here does it show the pop toddler. It's

Todd Jensen:

not showing the new product. I wouldn't recognize it on the shelf. Wait, wait, wait, wait, who says that

Chad Zollinger:

the It's just a packaging. It's a rebrand. It's just a packaging difference. Who, who says that? This is the old one. Oh, okay. This one, this. Have you ever seen a poptart with eyelashes? So,

Christian Jones:

so it does, that does in this scenario, your pop eyelashes are going to be just normal poptarts, maybe with eyelashes on them. Okay. It's not

Todd Jensen:

a jar of Gerber like food. It's actually a small Pop-Tart with eyelashes. We

Chad Zollinger:

are marketing to babies. We're not. Are you marketing to babies? How are you

Christian Jones:

marketing to babies? You're marketing to the baby's parents. The parents of the babies.

Todd Jensen:

That is awesome. Yeah. That was beautiful. Like, both of you really impressed me. It couldn't, this couldn't have worked out better. Not only do we just have just a tie up to this point, but both of you brought your A game to the final. So let's talk points. All right. All right. Whoo. You took technology and and made it pull my heartstrings like that was you tied it into nostalgia like the old meets the new. And then I think of the old like the pop tart. I got a lot of nostalgia wrapped around. It was very clever. I think I want to pass along to the new generation. You know, a whole new brand of pop tarts that actually played really well with a difficult, a really difficult prop.

Christian Jones:

That's exactly what I was looking for. So I'm super happy. So my vision,

Todd Jensen:

that's excellent. And then you added, show that, show the camera, the actual baby that you added there that is supposed to be so happy. Well, here's the thing, the visuals there, what I've done here, there are a lot of

Christian Jones:

technology here in product, but you want to personalize your brand. You want to show that the light that your product is going to bring to that individual. What is the strand? Oh, just a little bit of hair. Cause you know what? Silly baby. He didn't have time to do that hair. It's a little messy, but it makes it even look even cuter. Cause you know what, when are you going to eat this? The morning? Oh, he's got a little bed head. Cause he just woke up. How's he going to start his day? Well, he's going to start with a pop toddler. That's going to get him off to the right start that he needs. Not only in the day, but on his life, send him on a journey towards. Maturation

Todd Jensen:

always be selling the yard. But what I love is you didn't just focus on the technology, but what sells so much more than technology is the human face, the human face, the fact that you brought that out there, that's going to draw people in. It's the most beautiful thing. You human face,

Christian Jones:

not eyelashes on

Todd Jensen:

a pop tart. It's the best visual you can use in marketing is the human face. Cause it draws people in. Yeah. So I'm going to say for bringing in that human element and tying it together so poetically, I'm going to say the human element. I'm giving you five points, tying in the technology and the nostalgia. I'm going to give you another five points. I'm a you're at 10 points. All right. That's bullcrap. I literally just fell off my chair. Okay. Let's talk. Double digits, sucka. He got

Chad Zollinger:

to do a little spiel on it. Okay.

Todd Jensen:

Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear a counter argument.

Chad Zollinger:

The little side smile peeking out of the blanket. Okay. As if the blanket. We're causing the smile on the Pop Tart. Why does that matter? You're not selling blankets. Little side smile.

Todd Jensen:

But I do like, I do like that your prop is so integral. It's actually making this little Pop Turd, Pop Tart. Pop Turd. Pop Tarts for sewage workers. This Pop Tart.

Chad Zollinger:

It's a heat poop tart.

Todd Jensen:

Okay, I did not mean to go all scatological on this. But anyway, so what I really loved was that the blanket really was central. And it was the most, it was one of the most heartwarming pieces of your visual. So you really used your prop. I'm going to give you three points for just maximizing the effect. I am going to give you an additional six points because that little adorable pop tart is so cute. And it is our legacy here at Kellogg's the pop tart. And so the fact that you're just, you're elevating it to the cutest thing, it's the thing we love and we're just coasting off of that brand to introduce this new thing and you're making that the most adorable part. I just love that. So you're going to get six points for that, bringing you up to nine. And then at the very end, read me that tagline again.

Chad Zollinger:

This is going to get me at least one point, which Pop toddlers pop tarts for your sweetheart.

Todd Jensen:

That is so good. I am giving you 0. 75 points for that catchphrase making our champion Kristen Jones Let's

Chad Zollinger:

go! Oh my god I have won 0. 75 Did you were you planning on giving me the win and because I said that I'll give you at least one point you Totally

Todd Jensen:

took it off because I was like here he thinks he's got it Okay, one you were celebrating right before the end zone right before the end zone It's and then you drop the ball, but I was so beautiful on both your on both your fronts

Christian Jones:

my marriage My wedding night the birth of my children all pale in comparison to this moment right now I've wanted this more than anything I can I can't Thank you. That's funny. Thanks guys. That's good stuff. Well, you

Todd Jensen:

know, this is a big deal. And you take the inaugural crown for the Snoball effect. Where is it? Where is the crown? Are you hiding it? The Snoball effect. It's gonna be a big reveal, huh? It's the red headphones. There you go. Put them on his head. These headphones right here, I bestow upon you. You are now the champion marketer with these headphones that have been sitting back here for about a year and a half. No, that's not

Chad Zollinger:

how

Todd Jensen:

you can't even hear chat talking. So Christian, you won by just the slimmest of margins. Chad, though, not only What did I give you that badge of honor for earlier? Just like all goodness or honesty or something like that. So you take that with you. That is your miscongeniality of this competition. I don't remember receiving that. It's more of a mental like thing, but Hey, with full respect, like you, you really delivered. Thank you everybody for joining.

Christian Jones:

Just before you go, I just wanted to hand you an L.

Todd Jensen:

Well done to, to my friends and colleagues. Y'all crushed it. And for our first season here, Christian is the winner. Chad, really noble second place. And thank you everybody for joining. Hope you had fun. I sure did. Thanks a lot. We'll see you next time on The Snoball Fact. Um,

People on this episode

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Chad Zollinger

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Christian Jones

Co-host
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Todd Jensen

Co-host